Nordhavn 46 operating experience

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aukanai

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Joined
Jun 19, 2022
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7
Looking for some feedback from someone who has operated a Nordhavn 46.
I am looking at one for sale without a wing engine.
Have talked to a previous owner of a 46 who thought the 46 is under powered when traveling into much of a wind (20kts). Said he needed to run the wing engine to make much more than 3 kts. I see most 46,s for sale have more hours on the wing engine than would be needed just to keep them in service so I am thinking this persons experience is accurate. Has anyone who has operated a 46 had the same experience?
Thanks!
 
I delivered 4 or 5 N46s from LA area uphill to OR/PNW with plenty of 20-25 kt headwinds/seas late in their model run. Never heard of such a thing. Between the small size of any wing engine and the folding prop, wing engines don't typically provide much ooomph compared to the main engine. Using it as a second engine sounds odd to me, but maybe the earlier ones were different.

Not uncommon to have adjuncts like hydraulic pumps hanging off a wing engine meaning they are run during normal operation without propulsion engaged.

Peter
 
I agree with Peter. I think the comment got mangled a bit. What I believe was likely meant is that the WING engine is underpowered, and when running the WING engine you will not make more than 3kts or so into strong head winds/seas.
 
I agree with Peter. I think the comment got mangled a bit. What I believe was likely meant is that the WING engine is underpowered, and when running the WING engine you will not make more than 3kts or so into strong head winds/seas.

That makes sense.

I ran a handful of Nordhavns on their wing engine. Deere especially wanted the break-in oil changed at 100 hours so I would do it underway while the wing was engaged.

Auxiliary engines are always slow. Frankly, there's a strong case for twin engines vs a main and wing.

I don't know what N46s cost these days - some are quite old and likely pretty tired. They're a fine boat and certainly defined the modern trawler yacht. But.....if your budget allows, you might also look at the N40. The engine room is actually bigger and the boat in general is an improvement despite its smaller size.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Nordhavn builds a helluva boat and they generally resell easily when the time comes.

Peter .
 
Thank you for your comment. I am not sure the original post was clear. He ran both the main and wing engine when he was in a strong head wind
 
Thank you for your comment. I am not sure the original post was clear. He ran both the main and wing engine when he was in a strong head wind

Hmm, sounds like something’s not right. A N46 should do much better than that.
 
I perused the handful of N46s listed on Yachtworld. The one in Anacortes (HERE) does not have the engine model listed, but shows 105hp so perhaps they have the Lugger 4045 4-cylinder. While adequate in size, the Lugger 668 (140hp) is a much better choice. If my guess is correct, would explain the affect of headwinds on this boat. The other four N46s listed (HERE) all have the Lugger 668. Not sure if the 668 was an option that almost everyone chose, or perhaps there was a repower of some sort though I doubt it - my memory is pretty fuzzy, but I doubt this design was kind to removing an engine

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Peter
 
Interesting that 105 hp was an option for that. I guess for someone interested in long range it could have been appealing, but it sure sounds small for a 46 foot trawler.
 
Again, thank you for the reply to this post. The listing you are referring to in Anacortes has a 668 140 hp in it. I brought that point up (listed with a 105hp) to the broker weeks ago. The broker has chosen not to update the listing.
 
Again, thank you for the reply to this post. The listing you are referring to in Anacortes has a 668 140 hp in it. I brought that point up (listed with a 105hp) to the broker weeks ago. The broker has chosen not to update the listing.

All I can tell you is delivered several uphill into periodic 25 kt afternoon winds. Probably 4k-5k miles total. I didn't feel the boat was underpowered. My only quirk about the N46 is the fuel tanks are far aft making the bow a bit bouncy in a head sea. If you read Jim Leishman commentary in his update of Voyaging under Power about the design compromises they made , he says in hindsight he would have made the waterline a bit longer. The bow is pretty fine. He originally wanted a single stateroom boat but his partners vetoed the idea due to marketing concerns which is what pushed the tanks afteard. I believe they were reconfigured slightly later in the production run.

Not a defect of the N46, just a normal quirk - every boat has something. The N46 is a strong boat that makes owners proud to call their own.

As far as running the wing for speed, I'd love to hear from others.

Peter
 
Interesting that 105 hp was an option for that. I guess for someone interested in long range it could have been appealing, but it sure sounds small for a 46 foot trawler.

If you use the general guideline of 4.7 hp/metric ton required to reach hull speed, then either the 105 or the 140 would be fine depending on your use case.

Like you said, for long distance cruisers, go with the smaller number, especially for those who wallow at very slow, economical speeds, where you don't want to underload the engine for weeks at a time. For those more coastal cruisers, who like to goose the throttle, go with the higher number.
 
I've done the Baja bash and the wing wasn't used for powering the boat one bit. Most nordhavn wings die of little vs. overuse. The 46 is a great boat, super comfy,sips fuel , rides good. Built well. Most have been updated over the years, some well done ..some not.
Hollywood
 
I have a N46, hull 55, built just about half-way in the run of 82. Nordhavn boats are semi-custom, meaning order one early in the build, and one has a lot of freedom to makes individual requests. I've never seen the same layout in the galley/salon in looking at quite a few N46s. The joke was "see one Nordhavn, you have seen one Nordhavn, not all."

As for engines, the option to get twins existed. There were at least four N46s built with twin engines, which obviated the need for the wing engine. Mine has twins: two Lugger 4039T, which is a lugger 4 cylinder 3.9l turbo charged engine. 110hp at full power; about 70 at continuous power. They sip just under 2 gph each at 7 knots drving a 30 ton boat, or 3.5-3.75 gph for both engines underway. Plenty of power.

Quite a few N46 models have gone across all the oceans; at least four have circumnavigated. Has to be adequate power.
 
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I believe the Lugger 668D naturally aspirated is 105 hp.
And the Lugger 668T turbo is 140 hp
 
I have a nordhavn 46 and will be happy to talk to you
Pm for my phone number
I’m in the Seattle area
 
I have a late model 46. Hull 77 of 84. 2002. My owners manual lists engine HP at 105 at 2200 RPM, continuous duty. Is the boat underpowered, absolutely not. I typically cruise at 1650 achieving almost 7 knots. Anything more than about 1800 just causes the stern to squat. I’m told you need all of about 45 HP to achieve hull speed. The 46s are often listed as 105 or 140 HP and often the same boat, mine included, is listed both ways. Nobody seems to really know. Apparently, the only difference in the motor for the different HP ratings is a different version of the fuel pump and you can’t tell by looking at it. I quote here the head of training for Alaska Marine, the engine manufacturer on Luggers installed in Nordhavn 46s specifically “Lugger L6414D, L668D and LP668D were rated at anywhere from 105 to 143 HP, depending on what PAE was buying at the time. In reality, it is impossible to tell the difference in boat performance between any of the ratings because the difference is only observable in the highest couple hundred RPM where nobody ever runs their engines”. I have never heard of anyone running the wing engine in addition to the main except for experiments with slow speed handling. I also haven’t heard of any 46 single with a turbo, though that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. Feel free to reach out if you want more info on the 46, or want to see one.
 
Thank you very much for the post. Very helpful. If you where in the Seattle area I would love to take you up on your offer to see your boat. Do you know what propeller you are running?
 
Could I slightly hijack here? OA 42 sedan owners here; my YW filters for a next boat that would be a pilothouse that would have 15’8” max beam. I love the N46s I see. Curious how they compare to other boats for living space, and/or suitability as a liveaboard. Seeing a good number in the $350-400k range. We are in the PNW hoping to retire and explore as much North of us as possible, having never been North of Nanaimo. Cheers
 
The N46 has a lot of room and is comfortable. For a couple it is ideal, and the second stateroom offers tight room for a guest couple. I say tight because it has bunk beds, and one must climb to the top one.

There were two models: the "A" design which had the owners' stateroom midships with the bed athwartship, the idea being this was the place of least roll and pitch while crossing the ocean. This stateroom had an adjacent head/shower that is good size. There was a bunk bed stateroom in the bow along with a head/shower at the very tip of the bow as well. No doubt that was exciting or just not used in heavy weather. The "B" model had the owners' berth up front in the traditional v-berth area. Queen size walkaround bed, lots of storage and closet space. The second stateroom ran along the portside of the vessel aft of the owners berth. On the starboard side running aft from the owners berth were two identical head-showers with plenty of storage in each. Most boats have a washer/dryer somewhere. A companionway ran from the salon (down a few stairs) the length of the forward half of the vessel to the owners berth with doors to the guest cabin and heads on each side. Our washing machine is in this companionway. For those not venturing off shore, the B model was popular as the owners berth was larger and the room had more light, i.e., overhead hatches, and thus better ventilation as well. I'm told the production run (82 hulls) was almost 50-50 A and B models.

None of the galleys are the same. Nordhavns are semi-custom, and if a builder got in early, you could design your own vessel within limits. None are alike. You see one Nordhavn, you have seen one Nordhavn. Suffice to say, they all have a salon with at least one side having a sofa and dining table. Some have another sofa on the opposite side; most have chairs. Some galleys enter from the side; others from the salon. The galleys were well equipped. Most had propane stoves, but a good number were electric. Some have lots of teak; others have relatively little.

The pilot houses are largely alike, except the A model has stairs in it going to the owners bedroom as well as the companionway that runs from the salon; the B model does not stairs leading to the berths so the pilothouse feels larger. All have a full berth behind the seat/settee in the pilothouse. It is a large, comfortable area with room to move about while underway.

The cockpit is small and the stern is rounded. That makes for a nice, comfortable riding boat in following or quarter seas, but the lazarette under the cockpit is accordingly tight. Just about every subsequent model Nordhavn has a square, flat stern, but the 46's have a lovely ass. You can easily have a table and chairs set up for evening drinks.

All have a starboard side deck running from the cockpit to the pilothouse that is fully covered. High bulwark. Dry--even in rain. Top or boat deck is flat and fairly large. Same for foredeck. There is a mast with a book that has an electric windlass.

Engine room is adequate unless you have one of the 4 twin engine models like my boat; then the room is tight! I bdelieve all came with a NL 8 kw genset, whcih tasakes up room as well. Storage is minimal, so the lazarette must be carefully packed. But if the crew is a couple, then the second stateroom beocmes a great storage place.

The N46 is really very roomy. The first models came equipped with paravanes for stabilization; mid to late models mostly had stabilizers, adding to the crowd in the engine room, but adding to the comfort as well. N46s are really comfortable, underway and at anchor or dock. Four have circumnavigated, and countless others have traveled across the big oceans.

N46 is 46' long, 15'6" beam, 5'6" draft. 30 Ton displacement, but my boat with twins only uses 3.5 gph (total) at 7 knots.

PM me if you want some photographs.
 
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Michael provides an excellent summary. I would only add that there is a lot of variation across the fleet. No surprise when you consider how many years production lasted. Not all boats have stacked bunks in the second cabin, at least not the plan A boats. Mine has a double on port and a single on starboard side that converts to a desk with built in seating when the berth is not needed. Worth noting that the side deck is at the same level as the cockpit which feels much safer and less exposed than the similar size 43 that followed. Also, with the A plan, the forward stateroom is larger and has better headroom than on the 43. Those comments likely apply to the current 475 as well, it is slightly stretched 43, though I have not been aboard one. But to the point of the OP’s question about the wing, I would have no hesitation about purchasing a wingless 46. The non-electronic main is so reliable and so easy to troubleshoot that even on longer passages I would rather devote that space to spare parts than a little motor. Just my opinion, I know many wouldn’t agree.
 
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P.S. the prop on 46-77 is a 4 blade bronze, 28 inches in diameter with a 24 inch pitch.
 
Nordhavn 46

While we have not owned a N46 we have owned two N40's and one N35. Prior to ordering our first N40 we looked seriously at the N46 and really liked it. If memory serves me correctly the N46 has the largest beam to length ratio with the N40 coming in second. I would not be surprised if the N46 still holds this record on all Nordhavn's. If we were to look for another Nordhavn we would definitely look at a newer N46 with a single engine and wing engine in part for their traditional looks and stern. We are not big fans our squared off transoms that will squat in following seas or when too much power is applied.

John T.
 
Tiger Balm, N46#60 single 6068D, naturally aspirated. The “continuous duty” rating is at 2200 RPM 105HP, but is not limited by the fuel pump so we can get 2400 RPM 130/140 HP. Never needed that much when moving in a 85knt Hurricane. Fuel burn data is 8-12liter /hr 6.5/7.5kts. 1500-1800 rpm. Power required at this rate is around 85HP. Wing engine is a 27HP Yanmar, and in calm conditions light load = 4kts @WOT. Not continuous rated 3400RPM.
Full time live aboard, 30 000 NM never missed a beat.
 
N4680-Single rated at 105hp
Plenty of power as it only takes 50hp +|~ to hull speed, in a displacement hull any extra power would simply converted to a rooster tail.
I don’t see how a wing could possibly add anything. Small folding prop that drives the boat at 4kn is more likely to be an extra source of drag compared to the large prop that drives her at 8knots.
 

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